Blogcast #20 Becky Benfield-Humberstone

Becky Benfield -Humberstone: From Utterly Horse to The Brand Artisan

 

00:00.00

Rebecca

Hello and welcome to The Entrepreneurial Journey Podcast. Today I have Becky with me Becky Benfield-Humberstone, hope I’ve got that right? And you are the founder of The Brand Artisan tell us about what you do Becky. How are you first of all?

00:17.46

Becky

Hi Rebecca lovely to be on here. Thank you so much for the invitation and it’s it’s lovely to be here and tell you more about my yes sort of unique business I suppose so The Brand Artisan to put it simply is is basically I I teach and I help people to build brands.

00:35.68

Rebecca

Okay.

00:35.79

Becky

It’s almost by hand you know so they’ve got that sort of personal sort of authentic that sort of wholesome sort of feeling into them rather than you sort of at your corporate sort of that sort of edge. I suppose that’s the easiest way to put it. Yes, so it’s yeah doubles. So it’s handheld as in.

00:45.16

Rebecca

Right? I Quite like the handholding idea of it. Yes.

00:54.97

Becky

I can help you do it or I can help you I teach you how to do it and it’s also the hand as in it’s got that impression of you know, care and attention to detail and that sort of handmade sort of aspect to it as well.

01:04.56

Rebecca

Right? Okay now and I often ask this question not always, but when you’re at school and the careers adviser said Becky what you want to do with your life. What did you tell them at that point in time?

01:19.79

Becky

Well I had say mine’s such a bit different because I already knew about that point I was leaving so I left at 16 and when I started my first business when I was 16 actually slightly before. So, in my sort of that year I used to collect models of horses.

01:21.60

Rebecca

Okay, okay, okay, cool.

01:36.83

Becky

Sounds weird I know. Yeah that there’s a story to there so literally while I was at school I’d be trading you know selling things on Ebay. You know, collect models you know sell them to the states because obviously we used to have like yeah UK exclusives over here. So I used to go and find them and resell them so there was a bit of an entrepreneur I think sort of there but that.

01:37.50

Rebecca

You’ve got some in the background end. Yeah right?

01:56.51

Becky

It evolved into me actually then setting up a business selling models of horses. Quite unique niche business I have to say but we actually then grew it into we were the largest retailer in Europe about two and a half thousand items. We travelled all around the world sort of with it going to all these different sort of.

02:02.59

Rebecca

Um, yeah, yeah.

02:13.75

Becky

I suppose you can call them nowadays like convention sort of things for these sort of markets. So that actual business then evolved again. And we actually then started making our own range of models which if anybody’s watching these are some of them behind me. So we actually then had a factory out in China we were manufacturing out there.

02:22.86

Rebecca

Ah, right? Well now.

02:33.51

Becky

So I was back and forth visiting the factory and sort of you know, designing all the ranges and everything like that. So yeah, so that’s where it’s sort of so from school. Yes, that’s where it’s kind of come from.

02:46.00

Rebecca

That’s so cool. When I came to interview you I had no idea about any of this. I was going to ask about the horses but that’s, so okay.

02:59.68

Rebecca

And did you come from an entrepreneurial family?

03:03.30

Becky

Yeah, no, a family I had family businesses anyway. So as kids we were always on the board always in meetings always sort of just part that. But actually when I went to leave school at 16 the leave the school kind of, not refused, but they were very resistant to me actually leaving.

03:06.84

Rebecca

Okay, right.

03:21.74

Becky

So much so that my parents had to get involved to actually sort of extract me from the school. Which was an interesting one. But no I think it’s just something you grew up with really and so it’s sort of you know in the blood almost you know in a way. And just yeah.

03:35.43

Rebecca

And yeah, yeah, what and what were the challenges at 16 of running a business and doing all of that stuff.

03:47.20

Becky

Well I think at 16 I mean ah back then I couldn’t have a bank account. You weren’t allowed. Yeah, so that was you know stuff things whereas nowadays you can you know back then you couldn’t do it and obviously for for me as a sixteen year old girl you know in charge of a business.

03:48.66

Rebecca

Right? Yeah, you can.

04:04.82

Becky

Not as common but better nowadays. But back then it were you were looked at with like you know, stop being so silly and you know, going to do something you know, normal sort of thing and I think also because it was in such an unusual niche of business again that you had another layer of sort of, ,I don’t know questionability I suppose is yeah one way to put it. It’s suddenly I just always collected as a child and then it’s just it just then obviously snowballed and from there so I got in touch with there was somebody that was the only retailer in England at the time.

04:22.62

Rebecca

Yeah, and how did you get into Horse models right.

04:38.38

Becky

I got in touch with them and started sort of said look we worked together and then I ended up buying them out and yeah.

04:42.81

Rebecca

That is so cool because I used to collect key rings. But at no point did I ever think I know I’m going to sell them and then I’m going to just make key rings. So it’s that that’s all I love and interviewing entrepreneurs because it’s that thing I know I collect them.

05:02.36

Rebecca

And so many people would never go oh and now I’m going to sell them was that just an instinctive thing for you.

05:12.14

Becky

I think it is even now you know. I I’ll see something and think oh yeah, let’s do that as a bit to be honest, my problem is of having so many possible businesses. It’s probably that it’s trying to rein it back in. So I think it’s always having that thing of seeing the opportunity and anything you know I think that’s just sort of an ingrained.

05:19.36

Rebecca

Right.

05:30.41

Becky

Sort of it’s in there somewhere. I mean even with the horse sort of business. You know we sold them. But then we ended up making actually we did a three day festival up at Newmarket so we hosted a whole event and brought collectors from all over the globe together. I mean you know they were flying in from the States and from Germany and you know and when you sort of think of it now your mind sort of goes gosh did I actually really do that. But yeah, no, we did and we used to make models of the famous horses. We did  some movie premieres and did all that sort of stuff as well. So again.

05:46.14

Rebecca

I mean.

05:59.75

Rebecca

I Mean you know.

06:03.20

Becky

Almost in a funny way I’ve had quite a few chapters.

06:08.99

Rebecca

Um, that’s amazing I’m actually laughing inside because Alison who edits our podcast is a massive horse fanatic. So she’s gonna be laughing. What was the horse business this horse model business called?

06:24.30

Becky

So it was called Utterly Horses and our tagline was the home of the model horse. So that’s what we were known for literally if you wanted a model horse.

06:26.50

Rebecca

Okay, so.

06:31.80

Rebecca

And what happened to the business where is it now.

06:36.23

Becky

Well listen I’m saying it evolved into our own manufacturing business which we called Copper Fox Model horses and through and to do that to the evolution we actually then crowdfunded as well. So again, another sort of something else. We tried auccessfully crowdfunding that. So that’s that was where we got the first money to raise the capital for the first production runs from there as well. So but the actual business is still going now. It got sold to somebody in the States. So is it’s still living on but under a new owner at the moment. So yeah.

06:55.95

Rebecca

Right.

07:05.77

Rebecca

That’s fantastic. Oh that’s amazing. That’s and, how old were you when you exited.

07:09.32

Becky

Ah, so we did that for at least twenty twenty odd years so um so we were in that sphere for a long long long time I think it just got to the point we just kind of needed a change and probably decided different challenge you know and it was just time to sort of you know change really?

07:14.20

Rebecca

Right? Okay,

07:28.92

Becky

So actually weirdly after that I went corporate for 3 years because yes I know I was like never I got a proper job before, so I went and ended up working for The Imperial War Museum.

07:32.51

Rebecca

Did you Jesus? ah.

07:40.97

Rebecca

Wow. Okay, do a proper job but not really!

07:48.16

Becky

No, but you see because of see I left school and didn’t I didn’t have anything I could probably do the job I didn’t have it on paper that you could do the job so I ended up going in as an assistant. And then ended up leaving as the assistant manager.

08:07.66

Becky

That bug of you know opportunity was there in the background and obviously within that sort of environment you. It’s only so far you can push it and sort of you know? Well why can’t we do this? Well you can’t do that because that’s what we do and you think well naturally you should be doing it this way because there’s so much more you can do you know that sort of those conversations. So yeah.

08:24.63

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

08:27.56

Becky

It’s funny how once it’s in you. It’s really hard to sort of it won’t it doesn’t it quietens down but then it reappears and yes, so.

08:32.44

Rebecca

And I’ve often talked to my corporate friends about this. It’s that how can you sit in meetings and not say these things and they go “Well you just you just get used to it”,  and right there’s no way I could sit in a meeting.

08:51.28

Rebecca

And, not say these things because they’re blindingly obvious and need sorting out and I just can’t sit back and they go. Yeah, you’d kind of just have to not say anything like.

09:01.34

Becky

Yeah, and I think that’s the problem for so people that had that sort of entrepreneurial spirit. It’s really frustrating and it’s almost just you just there’s no logic in it for you. You’re just like “Why are you doing it the complete backward way when actually this way you know there so much more you can be doing and why aren’t you maximizing this out.” You know.

09:05.32

Rebecca

Yeah, oh.

09:18.27

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely totally agree. So 20 years manufacturing I love the fact that employers in the corporate world go well, you’ve not got certain letters after your name.

09:20.50

Becky

It’s just the way I think some people will are wired just to look at it differently which is interesting.

09:37.41

Rebecca

And you’ve not done this job title therefore you’re going to have to start as an assistant like ok so building a business from the age of 16 setting up a manufacturing business in China that must have been an absolute breeze Becky.

09:41.84

Becky

Yes, yes.

09:56.15

Rebecca

Came forward. No problems there at all.

09:56.45

Becky

Well, that was it and that was kind of for a little bit that was nice because you didn’t have that sort of responsibility Almost you just turned up did the job and went home which was nice for probably a little while but then you then you just got a little bit. You know then I know you did.

10:04.46

Rebecca

Um, yeah.

10:12.90

Becky

The the itch was there. You know it just never goodness never disappears. But yes, because I didn’t have those letters after my name. Yeah, you couldn’t do much I mean in between time I did actually study and get a degree. Anyway, just because I thought oh why? not? you know, let’s just try it out. So.

10:15.90

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah.

10:25.54

Rebecca

Okay, yeah, how did you get your degree?

10:30.65

Becky

Yeah, but at the time I didn’t have it. I actually did it through the Open University I got an open degree. So it meant I could pick and choose. I recommend it to anybody actually and because you did so I did like design I did creative writing I did some sort of business sort of studies as well. You can pick and choose different things and it still is a degree at the end of the day. It just means you’re not a degree in a specific sort of a thing.

10:54.33

Rebecca

Right? I’ve interviewed so many entrepreneurs now we’re to episode 170-odd I think and one of the things that keeps coming through is this sense of curiosity that entrepreneurs have not just for the business that they’re in.

11:08.32

Becky

This.

11:11.94

Rebecca

But for all other kinds of areas in life and you know you’ve mentioned creative writing sort of business as well.

11:27.85

Rebecca

Part and parcel of the business design for you I can get that with the horse thing and it’s I think there’s there’s something about an entrepreneurial thinker. I think if we went back in time I think somebody like ah you know Michelangelo and…

11:32.55

Becky

Mhmmm…

11:46.65

Rebecca

And Leonardo Da Vinci would have been counted as entrepreneurs. Yeah, because of this sort of general curiosity about everything and I think that’s part and parcel of our makeup without a shadow of a doubt.

11:49.71

Becky

Oh definitely. Yeah.

12:04.75

Rebecca

So three years at The Imperial War Museum must be quite interesting actually seeing behind the scenes. What was that like?

12:10.76

Becky

It was interesting I think in a good and bad way if that makes sense good, you know because there was a big team there. I mean I so I was working at the Ducksford site which is obviously aviation. And planes sort of coming and going which is you know something I’m interested in anyway.

12:21.30

Rebecca

Okay. Yeah, quite cool.

12:28.23

Becky

But the thing I think also what was quite thing is where you think these organizations run really sort of smoothly and slickly but behind the scenes is it’s a different story and you realize it’s all about the team. You know, putting on that sort of front and how they pull together is actually what sort of keeps it sort of running. You know it is about the people that you’ve got in in certain places and things like that. So but no I think as you say the curiosity I think that’s definitely something we all have.

12:46.42

Rebecca

Yeah, it is.

13:06.40

Becky

Fascinated about anything and everything I think and and I think it’s also taken those ideas and then translating them into different arenas so you sort of take an idea from somewhere else or you know something and then you sort of translate it into a different sort of industry which I think is ah probably another sort of aspect.

13:17.40

Rebecca

And yeah, yeah, absolutely we train coaches and consultants and one of the things I’m always saying to them is is go and listen to other stuff. Don’t just listen or read business-y coaching and leadership type books. Go and read completely different things and watch completely different things that are totally unrelated because that’s where you get your best ideas and yeah, it’s that and what do they call it is it divergent thinking or lateral thinking I’m not sure which.

13:43.36

Becky

Um, yes, yeah.

13:53.75

Rebecca

But yeah, it’s joining those dots with the other and pulling on different threads I think that’ the key. Definitely okay so you left The Imperial War Museum and then what happened?

14:03.12

Becky

Yes, well I I did that classic thing of that during lockdown you know that was my classic movie in lockdown that was I was yeah thrown in the so I actually then changed during lockdown and went start to be a virtual assistant a VA.

14:13.63

Rebecca

Okay.

14:18.30

Rebecca

Okay, yeah, ludicously overqualified next.

14:20.63

Becky

From home because that was first logical sort of move to think to and then it’s well that’s what I think I discovered because what I was doing is doing these jobs and then they just get bigger and or I’d I’d you know, find out more things and you just then start repackaging it in a different way. You know offer. And I think over the time I’ve learned that my skills are in that branding sort of set but branding in a sense that it covers more than just sort of the basic foundation. You know I sort of take it into the marketing side and also the copywriting side. You know how you sort of get that brand message and sort of. Branding in general across all those different sort of pillars really? So um, that’s where I am today. So yes, and.

15:03.60

Rebecca

Yeah, we call it the brand architecture. It’s part and parcel of what we take our clients through and our coaches take our clients through is that once you’ve built the foundations of the purpose vision of values and then you’ve got to build the narrative the imagery the story like you say and the copy. How you approach the market from that and it has to be seamless because if your audience sees something that jars.

15:25.63

Becky

Yep quit.

15:37.27

Becky

Um, oh yes, and yeah, you want to retain as many as possible and I think but that’s what it is about joining those dots up. Because I think what where it’s come from I’ve worked with a lot of clients that have had they’ve outsourced to different people for different jobs.

15:37.87

Rebecca

With what they think you are you lose them? don’t you.

15:44.56

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah.

15:53.29

Rebecca

Um, yeah.

15:54.00

Becky

And then that is good and bad in equal measure because it’s all right? If they you know everybody understands what their role is and how they fit together in the puzzle. But if nobody’s looking at how the pieces are going together. That’s when you get the sort of the dissonance and the sort of it’s just hasn’t got that as you say seamless sort of approach.

16:02.87

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah.

16:12.30

Becky

Whereas where I come at it is that you know you literally start at the beginning and look at where we’re going and then figure out. Okay, how can we get that in there and what have we got to do and just enjoying up all the ah all the pieces. A variety. So again, it’s that curiosity thing you know, literally as many as I can.

16:20.25

Rebecca

And what kind of businesses do you work with?

16:32.20

Becky

So the moment on my books at the minute I’ve got interesting so I work for ah, an independent chain of coffee shops. So I do it all there, do all the marketing and the branding and everything for them. I work for a building company as well. A fashion company. So I’m doing their brand at the minute I’ve got somebody else who’s a nutritionist in the health coach as well and then I do some work for somebody.

16:35.97

Rebecca

Okay, so.

16:52.22

Becky

And clients in America, most specifically somebody’s in like the movie industry as well sort of Hollywood which is what is really good. Quite fun interestingness for our niche. So no days the same we know as you say look at the diary. Okay, what’s going on today who am I which world am I in today.

17:12.00

Becky

So I can fully you know tell you more about coffee than the average person or you know in building you know why we do certain things a certain way or what things are called. You know, and that’s stuff. That’s what I really enjoy is learning all those weird things you just?

17:29.90

Becky

Being able to deep dive and really understand what their business is about.

17:31.34

Rebecca

Yeah I and you know I’ve said it before on this podcast. So it’s no secret. One of the reasons I love what you do is because I’m just really nosy just really like finding out. Oh how does that work. What do you do?

17:46.44

Becky

Mm It is that? no, but yeah yeah I find myself so asking all the weird questions they’re like why are you asking that I’m just like I just want to know you know. Well also you because you come at it especially with different questions you come at it from a customer angle because you just want to ask all those weird questions as well.

17:51.64

Rebecca

I just want to know.

18:03.38

Becky

You know why does it do it that way. Why you know why do you do it that way or you know things like that which is always an interesting exercise to do.

18:05.80

Rebecca

Yeah, and now a lot of our listeners are growing entrepreneurs growing their businesses. How do clients find you or how do you find your clients?

18:19.94

Becky

So most at the minute is mostly referrals sort of, um, one of those unfortunate classics. You know doing your own stuff is really hard. It’s all about trying to put yeah more emphasis on trying to do my own things as well. So.

18:26.50

Rebecca

Yes, it is very.

18:36.61

Becky

But now at the minute it most have all been referrals all sort of word of mouth which is always the best way to sort of get new clients. I

18:49.61

Rebecca

Um, it is yeah it is it is but my entrepreneurs out there listening will go. But yeah, how did you get your first client.

18:55.49

Becky

First client is just about your luck so literally just asking the people in your network, friends, family. Do you know of anybody that needs somebody or can I help you on this or it’s just having those conversations which sounds really simple.

19:00.30

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

19:14.20

Becky

Kind of sometimes the most simple things are the ones at work. You know, it is just about you know networking you know if you haven’t got anybody you know there just find ah ah, a group or somebody local or even just drop somebody if you follow on Instagram say you follow somebody you really like admire on Instagram just drop them and a message and ask how did you get started. You know have you got any you know pointers or tips or whatever and you’ll you’ll find that you should they will answer or if they don’t try somebody else and just just keep going.

19:36.25

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah.

19:45.44

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, you just tell everybody you tell everybody and and you’re absolutely right? Do you know anybody who might or I’m starting this out and I think when you’re starting out a lot of people want to help you don’t they yeah.

19:49.49

Becky

Oh gosh. Yes, no, they do and I think it’s also being willing to accept the help you know take take as much as you can absorb. Basically you know.

20:04.33

Rebecca

Yeah, perfect.

20:09.10

Becky

Be a sponge and and literally is as much help you as you can get and people are willing to offer then yeah run with it because you never know where it goes you see you never know who knows who or where you know where it can take you so say yes to everything and then.

20:20.40

Rebecca

Yes, yes.

20:23.21

Becky

Panic later when you’ve got too much work and then you can refine. It’s better. It’s easier to scale back than and to go upwards so you know so.

21:07.80

Becky

You never know that person in front of you. Well who they know or what they know it’s just treat every every situation like an opportunity. Just yeah.

21:11.40

Rebecca

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, so the reason we came across you is because you went in for the great British Entrepreneur awards. And before we came on we discovered sadly, you didn’t win. You were robbed Becky.

21:31.25

Becky

That’s all right I’ve got quite a few already. You know it’s It’s the taking part now to be honest I use business awards as a it’s a way I use it to review my business actually because you know where you sit and have to answer those questions.

21:45.40

Becky

It’s actually a really good time to actually sort of take stock and think actually what am I doing where am I going you know what’s the idea So that’s what I enter them for I mean I have I’ve entered them since since the beginning So all those years ago. And I remember my first business award was I used to give out those big checks. Do you remember those massive checks those big.

21:47.93

Rebecca

Yes, yeah.

21:54.12

Rebecca

Right.

22:01.63

Rebecca

Yes I do well that’s called did you win money then did they actually na.

22:04.38

Becky

Yes, so yeah, that was my first one I remember that so here ah back then? yeah what it was it was like one of the young entrepreneur ones. It was a very early I don’t think they still exist now but they did have a like a little prize money of so of some description. But yeah, you’re right back in the very beginning it was yes.

22:19.45

Rebecca

Um, it wasn’t Shell Livewire was it I remember Shell Livewire, yes I remember feeling a bit frustrated because I started my first business when I was 27 and by the time I realized about Shell Liveware I was too old and like darn it.

22:36.82

Becky

Um, ah I think and I think we should just make a new one see this is it I’m sitting and going right? We should just do one now. Let’s just set what one up. Let’s just do it ourselves. You know, let’s just make a new one.

22:47.60

Rebecca

Ah, it’s true but happily one of your clients won didn’t they.

22:49.18

Becky

Yes, so and so one of the my ah toast which is my independent chain of coffee shops. So I entered them into the awards. And they actually won so they did win the retail entrepreneur of the year for the east of England.

23:06.40

Rebecca

Yeah, is the biggest one. It’s huge. It’s like 1500 people are there.

23:08.46

Becky

And that was the one they actually got so the biggest one which is good.

23:32.14

Rebecca

Yeah, it is mind blowing I really enjoyed it. We went in 2021 and I really really enjoyed it. We’re not entered and for a couple of years because we’ve not really done anything yet. That’s of note. This year will be different.

23:48.14

Rebecca

Ah, bit like you. It’s like you. You’ve said to this year focusing on your business and doing that we’re doing same definitely getting it to scale. What are the plans for your business where are you going to take it?

23:55.86

Becky

So for me is just it’s it’s kind of focusing it back on me really sort of almost treating myself as a client that sounds kind of odd I know but you know and looking at you know what the opportunities are for me.

24:19.27

Becky

Teach more people. How to do it. You know? I think the thing is with I have a few fingers in a few pies as well. You see so I’ve got so I’ve got The Brand Artisan and then I also run something with postcards from a founder which is kind of like a community sort of business art project. So we get people to share their stories on the back of a postcard.

24:22.81

Rebecca

All right.

24:38.57

Becky

Which again then gets reshared sort for inspiring others. You know about their stories or what helped them overcome sort of things like that. So there’s a few things like that that I want us to to move forward. Um I’m also a writer as well. So I’ve got a few books on the go.

24:50.27

Rebecca

Okay do you ever sleep Becky?

25:37.83

Rebecca

For me the creative outlet is writing is that for you too do you think or is it more design?

25:42.90

Becky

It is because and no is I think definitely the writing I mean you can happily get lost for a few hours just sort of you know, tapping away and seeing where you go. You know what worlds you’ll delve into.

25:56.30

Becky

And I think sometimes that is a quite a good in this sort of you know, especially with work wise as well. You know it is having that sort of space to think outside and sort of let you know work sort of relax for a little bit I suppose.

26:05.76

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah, definitely no I agree. Okay, and you’re going to be able to get this question and I don’t know whether you’ve listened to any of the other podcasts have you Becky it doesn’t matter if you haven’t.

26:21.34

Rebecca

Well you might know this question is coming then yeah if your business had a personality or a character. How would you describe it or who would it be?

26:31.90

Becky

Oh can it be myself hey cool. Yeah, so that that is it is me honestly that is me to a T. You know? Um, It’s just the business is me I know it’s new. Yeah, it’s very close. It’s kind of Creative. You know, spontaneous. You know we will try anything and do it anything and that’s I think it’s just that inspiration to give it a go. You know to give it a Try. You know, no idea is a bad idea. There’s always a possibility of making it work somehow and I think that’s what I kind of that’s what it embodies.

27:04.27

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah, there is when you have the idea there is a way to get it to work and and I like that if evolution a lot of people like the word pivot I Hate the word pivot but actually it’s more of an evolution. It.

27:23.80

Rebecca

You know you’re always building on what went before and you’re always taking out the stuff that doesn’t work and just keeping the stuff that definitely did work. Yeah, and no I think that’s good and will you employ anybody or do you employ Anybody at the moment?

27:39.88

Becky

I don’t at the minute. No, it’s just me myself and I which yeah at the minute the size is it is hand is suitable but this is that this is the fun thing. You know you never know what’ where you’re going to go and what the opportunities are so yeah I never say no down the line.

27:54.35

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah.

27:57.11

Becky

Taking on more people and and bringing that you so expanding that out further. But yeah, no, the minute’s just it’s just me the horse we had ah six six staff for them and then obviously then we had external one that but you know the factory and things of that. But yeah, that was a core staff. We had 6.

28:24.00

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah, no, a lot of people, will try and expand their staff and certain sectors have to you know law architecture that sort of thing accountancy. We can see less now because so much is digitized.

28:41.63

Rebecca

Lawyers may have fewer staff with AI. But anyway and the temptation is to grab staff but actually that 6 to 8 is a really nice sweet spot for a business. You can be very very profitable.

28:59.18

Rebecca

That size and like you say you can still produce a lot and do a lot with that number of people. Yeah.

29:01.86

Becky

Yes I think you Also you’re flexible aren’t you to adapt to whatever comes down the line any bigger it gets it. It’s been like a ship you know any bigger you get it. It gets a bit longer to manoeuvre and I think in this sort of sort of space you need to have that.

29:12.69

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah.

29:19.14

Becky

Manoeuvrability to sort of you know jump on something or quit you know, try something out you know, different ways to sort of navigate and try things that you know see what works and doesn’t.

29:28.48

Rebecca

Yeah, yeah, definitely right? Amazing! That’s fabulous I love that thank you Becky I could talk to you all day. But we’d go off to you know favorite author favorite fit you know we’d just go off track I think.

29:33.33

Becky

So wise.

29:43.60

Rebecca

Yeah, go around again and I’d ask you to go through all your books and then I’d go through my books. Yeah, yeah, definitely let’s not do that right? That’s amazing. Thank you so much for time I Really appreciate it and best of luck.